Yes this is relatable to me. I went to a notable surgeon in the transmasculine too suregon sphere He very often made comments about my large chest compared to my petite body frame athe the fact I had a much smaller waist measurement to my underbust (rib) and hip measurement he was very cavalier about the result because of that I feel. There was both a weird sexual aspect but also I feel he didn’t feel he could get a result he would be proud of. After the surgery and taking the moment he actually walked me out of the office and told me very bluntly because “my waist was so petite compared to my hips and ‘rib flare’ that I would never in my life pass as a man” this was like a gut punch. I felt like. You didn’t tell me this cruel thing before you took my money. Before a very painful surgery. But felt comfortable enough to say it as I was being walked out of the office

I’ve had a reconstruction but it will always stick with me that it was malicious and cold.

I have talked to people about this a lot. The trans community very much deals often in about said in using therapy terms to embolden a sense of validity of of both kindness and compassion (being seen in the right side as they often willl themselves say “the right side of history “ as well as being seen as intelligent and intellectuals) there is a lot of naval gazing and narcissistic qualities in themselves for calling out others sadly. I’d say spending that much time building a community based on the idea on needing to be affirmed as your true self as the biggest goal. Kind of can’t be anything but self focusing. A lot of people in those parts of their lives are needing support. And are in places or low self esteem and are vulnerable themselves those types of thoughts are of course very appealing. Having to walk on egg shells makes sense. If the underlying beliefs are that your core self is constantly under attack by a world that hates you and that you are being denied you exist. And that you have to exist. It’s a self feeding creation. It is something that kind easily continues the dysphoria. (It may not have started it. But it is easy to continue an agitation of feeling victimized). Victimhood as much as people don’t want to acknowledge alows people some psychological bonuses of otherness with a bit of a chip on the shoulder. Ideally we can out grow that l view of outselfs. Often I think that same victimization is a way to have people kind of care for you and some beliefs can be used for people to do that for you as well. I’ve also noticed some people don’t always even believe what they preach if they had to act on their altruistic words. But they need to say it in hopes of being seen as certain way

I mean again not to be mean but in essence we are creating in our own bodies somewhere between forced menopause /extreme PCOS or some form of virility based steroidal abuse. Our bodies are not responding as a male body would more aligned as what it is. A female body overriden with extra androgens. As you said. Sweat and hair. Weight gain. Trans men will say this is a male thing in general. And yes testosterone in males can cause all these things but it’s not a more aligned fact actually I feel hormone imbalance in men and general unhealth makes those things shift and change in males as well We are just making our bodies less healthy. Can trans bodies look more like the ideal they show from influencing . Sometimes but if in honest I’ve seen it rarely and certainly not with great physical effort and cost of time effort. As well as the innate cost to your health. As hrt is never something that comes without a health problem

Presentation wise? This varies but a good many of the type in question are not often very masculine presenting before. And often retain a lot of their feminine presenting style and dress as well ans not learning how to groom and adapt to a hormonally changed body. A body that is going to be seen socially different. As much as we would like to feel comfortable in the idea of being non binary in the trans community there is a bit of a knee jerk reaction to what is the “obvious enby” look which is often sometimes someone who looks like they lack a bit of self awareness. Both at their own self perception as well as the expectation of the social reaction of others that their body if they are medically transitioning is going under very major physical changes and that it’s not subtle.

I also think for some reason a lot of trans people let their changes creep up on them. They both notice and don’t notice. For whatever reason. See and don’t. I don’t know if it’s a level of social awkwardness or autism or what have you in the current trans community. It’s just something I notice

I agree it’s a nonsense argument. Most people are not going to regret getting surgery to fix a hair loss surgery unless it is somehow very botched. Compared to being castration which is a completely different level of physical modification even on how functionally different in effects the body on a long term level

One thing this does do however is it does open up that in the end. Trans rights activists are actually bold face admitting to the fact that they often do view this as an act of self vanity for themselves. That they are getting perhaps lost in a mix of persona and group think and are rationalizing it with larger social views on plastic surgeries

But that when they do state it this way it really comes less down to social desires and down to cosmetic vanities. (And to be honest. Often sexually motivated ones as well ) if it was simply to look somewhat feminine or masculine trans people wouldn’t feel the need to meet “envy goals “ that often were unattainable to even most cis people. It’s why the standards of surgery for cis people needs to be normalized as well as body modification in general to the extreme as it does (it’s very “I want it.” ) on the comment of trans kids.. they aren’t really thinking about the kids outside of the view of themselves often I would think. Again by this point many are a bit lost in their own wants. The kids both represent their wants as who they were on the past to prove it to themselves and also a means to acquire it in the future

If they are saying a cis woman’s need for boob job is the same thing as a trans woman’s. They might be telling a bit on themselves to be honest..

Yes this has been noted I believe for a long time that hair loss in females taking testosterone isn’t the same as what would be seen as the same thing in males. People have said the same thing that this comes from double X chromosomes

It could also be health related overall. Hard for me to know exactly. If it is simply we are processing dht as the cause as mph is but ftms at the same time are getting other health related side affects that are not quite comparable to normal male aging. It could also in addition be stressors on different parts of the bodily systems and health over all. As well as what you mentioned as a higher sensitivity in response for females

I was about to post this. If excess androgens make a man. Then all women with PCOS instantly are male. Despite that many as people may not even “feel” masculine. Which I thought was the trans definition of gender. Feelings and not anatomy. Also transwomen can be called female before estrogen and t blockers. So that would pop a hole again in the idea that those trans women were “always women”

They also would say in the case of a steroid using body building woman who may have similar bodily changes as a trans man. That that shields trans women. Because the identity of the body builder would matter and the excess androgens don’t refute that. To validate transgender women.

Ultimately the goal posts are eternally shiftable. Is it a biological change. A fixed internal mindset. It means what you want it to mean. Because it in essence is trying to transform any definition of identity. Because the sense of self underneath is often fragile and vulnerable and for reasons often not wholly reliant of gender itself.

They are often people who are insecure in many aspects of “self” and so vulnerability of that internal identity is projected onto gender as that fragile identity. Because it is currently and has been for a while, a culture that can bulwark insecurity with social backing.

Which allows a lot of uncomfortable people to not have to face the mirror (both literal and figurative). Because usually the dysphoria is a layer of feelings. But deflecting avoids ever having to genuinely face discomfort. That is why it can’t be criticized or asked questions about

Agree with everyone. Very feminine in the structure of your features. Depending on how much you want your personal preferences for presentation (style ,dress-etc )

If you are more comfortable with “feminine” grow out your hair even just a little bit more I would say. The only thing I can think is the fact that we so often have a knee jerk assumption of short hair now on women to be non binary?

I had experienced this yes I have been detransitoned for a long time but for a good while there was a hard push for people to at the very least to see that I was non binary or that my detransition had happened under coercion. And that there was a level of “non binary buffer “ to go by they/them. Even if corrected. Often I would also hear the terms “a gender journey “ to continue the idea of being non binary.

I will say this to add on to the idea of comments from young children (this may seem odd coming from my parents however ) I talked to my baby boomer mother about gender dysphoria and genitals years ago. She once talked about her childhood and how she never felt terribly aware of those things however she had a brother and remembered such comments as “why don’t you have a penis” etc similar comments. And I feel she mentioned more a level of discomfort and maybe even aggravated feelings as a child towards the idea. I don’t know if she said it could be compared to dysphoria as people defined it now but sis did she grew up now easily could have co opted into it. Also she was very much a hippy and grew up into the idea of feeling othered as a girl and not fitting the more “mod” or au currant beauty standard feeling a bit bookish and off though not fully tomboy. She said feeling more cerebral and internal had she grown up now all those things could have made her feel like someone could have made her believe she was trans. Back to that innate question. No I don’t think many kids have a innate hyper focus on either their genitalia or their gender tbh honest

It is easy for you to make a claim to the effect of “it would” unless you had that situation play out as stated and had such a surgery. (And also had regret) then you would be able to make the claim of how the reasoning would affect the depth of your grief. If you have either not had a surgery as surgery and also not had the outcome of grief. It isn’t really a claim you can make with hindsight over how your part views impact the current state you are in now