IIRC, the other sub was originally started because there is a perception among trans communities that this sub is largely people who have never transitioned and are only here to promote gender critical ideas and/or signal boost detransitioners who share their GC ideas. And many believe that the GC detrans people here are just "grifters" feigning their beliefs (or even their detransition itself) for clout, money, etc. Again, this is their perception, not mine.

I think the other sub has the opposite problem, where instead of people who've never transitioned, they've apparently had issues with trans people (who aren't questioning) using them to plan their own transitions, where the vibe is more or less "how do I avoid being like you guys? Being you is basically my worst fear." (I've personally gotten some questions like this from trans people, too.)

The sub has limited usefulness IMO. I view it mostly as place for people to reconcile their trans identity with transition regret, mixed feelings, etc. Hence why so many of the people there still ID as trans. It's not very good for talking candidly about harms incurred by transitioning or within trans communities, because the sub is committed to banning anything that could even be perceived as problematic towards transitioning/trans identity. Even transmedicalism will get you banned.

I sometimes pop in there to see what's going on. I don't know if I'd consider myself "GC" but I'm also not.. whatever a lot of trans communities are doing. It's just a bit exhausting to be walking on eggshells any time you want to speak genuinely about your experiences.

Nothing you've said here strikes me as particularly transphobic. "Transwomen are socially women and biologically male" used to be a standard liberal/progressive talking point, it's hardly hateful. Yes, transwomen and biological women can share some social experiences by virtue of both being socially perceived as women (and treated accordingly), but our bodily differences necessarily lead to different experiences and perspectives as well. That's not hateful to say.

It's normal to feel the way you do after what you've experienced. We were told that gender dysphoria necessarily meant we were trans, and that wasn't true. Of course you'd wonder if that applies to other people. You shouldn't consider yourself some freak anomaly--you're not one. Lots of people have experienced this. Some trans people will tell you your experiences are wrong, but that's their own problem.

You can believe everything you believe while not being hateful in the slightest. Really, your views would only be considered transphobic by people who are terminally online. Your views are very common and moderate in the real world. Tbh, if you've recently started detransitioning, I'd take some time away from trans-related spaces. Getting overly invested in trans politics (whether "pro" or "anti") will just hamper your self-growth.

I don't know a ton about this, so anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but,

AFAIK this is downstream of Anne Fausto-Sterling's work. She believed that sex was a spectrum rather than a binary, and used intersex conditions to support her argument. To better do so, she used a very wide definition of intersex: "any sexual condition deviating from the Platonic ideal of male or female." (Classically, intersex meant a person who had ambiguous genitalia or a sexual genotype that didn't match their sexual phenotype.) This led to the "~2% of people are intersex" statistic you sometimes hear about. This meant the inclusion of conditions that wouldn't classically been considered "intersex" (but may still be DSDs) such as Klinefelter Syndrome, Turner syndrome, late-onset congenital adrenal hyperplasia, etc. The main criticism of her work was that it broadened the defintion of intersex so much that it lacked practical meaning.

And in recent years that's only worsened, because "deviating from the Platonic ideal of male or female" could easily be expanded even further to include people whose secondary sexual characteristics are viewed as atypical, i.e. women with hirsutism and men with gynecomastia. It's a definition that is driven mostly by a particular social/political viewpoint, rather than medical relevance. But obviously, a woman with extra upper lip hair from PCOS is going to have a far different lived experience and needs from someone with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS), even if neither are meeting the "Platonic ideal" in the strictest possible sense (are any of us?)

It's standing out to me that everything you've mentioned here has to do with gender roles. You like these things that women get to do, you dislike the way that men are perceived and the dynamic between men and women.

It feels like your problem here is not that you are male, but that you dislike the assumptions/expectations that men are held to. It's okay to feel that way. A lot of the assumptions other people have about us because of our sex/gender really suck! Lots of detrans people have felt this way and still do.

But you shouldn't reject your body, you ESPECIALLY shouldn't pursue permanent changes to your body, because you dislike the way other people perceive you. I've been there and it's a horrible, soul-crushing way to live. You will never be able to control how other people view you, you may never even be able to pass as female by your own admission. Believe me, if you're already feeling trepidation about the idea of doing your hair and makeup every day, you will not like the amount of time, money, and effort it takes for many people to even partially pass. And, you don't want to be years worth of hormones and multiple surgeries into this just to realize that you'll be perceived as trans forever, or that you actually miss being a regular dude.

If someone makes assumptions of you because of your sex, that's their problem, not yours. You'll fare a lot better by working on letting go of other peoples' opinions than you will by transitioning.

Young people in general are in a life stage where they're trying to figure out their identity and their place in the world. It's why teenagers are stereotyped as going through lots of "phases." I think trans/NB stuff can just be another phase for some young people (and, I don't say this to belittle it or downplay how serious it is-- just to say that it can be transient.)

It's probably exacerbated by the cultural moment that is very anxious about inclusivity, not just with regard to LGBT stuff but also any person who is considered "different" or outside the norm in some way. And the things you mention (social media, mental health crisis, lack of identity) all contribute as well. It seems like a lot of young people are kind of lost and aimless, they don't feel like their lives have very much meaning or purpose. Picking up a label or an ideology can be a way to introduce meaning into their lives.

And speaking from my own experience, there are probably some people who are more prone to seeking out labels/identity categories because of personality and mental health reasons. If you have low self esteem, a poor sense of self/identity, social anxiety and similar issues, you may be more likely to pick up transness as just another thing that gives you a sense of self and a community. This was me, I've heard similar testimonies from other detrans people, and I think it explains why some people will make transness their whole lives, then detransition and shortly thereafter hyperfixate on a new identity that totalizes their life (politics, religion, etc.)

For sure. I used to style myself as a “pro-trans detransitioner” and always had to tiptoe around even mild criticisms of the trans community or trans medicine. I had enough good sense to peace out of all that years ago, but I didn’t realize until very recently how much pain I was holding onto because I was constantly getting told I was wrong for feeling hurt by my transition and wronged by the messages in trans communities.

I feel so bad when I see detransitioners experiencing the same treatment I did.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this, too. Breastfeeding is a really hard one, because it’s not just about me, it’s also about my kids, too. I have a toddler and I wished I would’ve at least had the option to try breastfeeding when he was an infant.. I’m currently in my second pregnancy and some of the residual breast tissue swells and gets sore. It’s very strange and discomforting, to feel that happening while also knowing that breastfeeding isn’t possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if the detransition rate increased in the coming years. Increased visibility/awareness during the "trans moment" (which I think is starting to fade) probably led to a lot of people with low-grade dysphoria or secondary dysphoria transitioning. But these might not necessarily be people who persist in a long-term transition. It seems like a lot of these people start to question the long term viability of their transition after several years.

How much? Hard to say. There are also probably some people who fall into the low-grade dysphoria/secondary dysphoria category who just persist because it's the path of least resistance, because they had good transition results, etc. I don't think the rate of transition/trans identification will go back to how it was, say, two decades ago or so.

I was a lot like you at the start of my detransition. I was changing so much about myself and worried about losing my identity entirely, becoming a person I didn’t like. I saw some detransitioners say things that I found genuinely hateful. I didn’t want to be that way. So I committed myself to being a “pro-trans detransitioner,” trying to merge being a detrans woman with trans politics. In practice, I think I became basically a “token detrans.” I had to downplay my negative feelings about my transition, and about messages I internalized from trans communities. Despite all my efforts, I still got accused of lying about my experiences.

This caused a lot of additional hurt on top of what already existed. I never processed any of it because I was told my feelings were wrong. That festered in me and turned into self-hatred. I think it’s important that we recognize that a lot of detransitioners actually were hurt by transitioning. They were hurt by trans medicine, they were hurt by trans communities.

Yes, we are responsible for our choices to a certain extent. But we also make choices in the context of our environment. Trans communities are aware that vulnerable questioners go into their spaces to look for guidance and help from people who have been in their situation before. These communities can’t just wash their hands of responsibility when they’re held to account for what they tell these people. They, too, are responsible for their actions.

There are still things I see some detransitioners say that I feel crosses a line. I won’t make excuses for hatred. But criticisms aren’t hatred and talking about our experiences and feelings genuinely isn’t hatred. It isn’t hatred to say “I was hurt and wronged.” Being able to recognize that is part of healing, too.

why do you all think some trans people are out there denying their biology

Ultimately I think this is just a more comfortable position for trans people who feel like imposters when they use the classical argument of "trans people change their gender, not their sex." It's a more complete rejection of their body/"previous self"/etc and they probably feel less "locked in" to a particular state. The idea of being female at all was distressing for me, so of course I'd gravitate to arguments that denied that.

If you already accept the arguments that biological sex is a spectrum of traits rather than a binary, then it's not hard to jump to "trans people change their sex when they medically/surgically transition."