I dont call women “females” but I was using “female” in reference to the biological sex of all the individuals I was referring to, regardless of wether they identify as “women” or not. Also you did the exact same thing in your title “Im sick of males invading lesbian spaces” don’t be a hypocrite. Also if you don’t know what gay male spaces are like irl, then you can’t really have an informed perspective on the matter

I mean, females (predominantly bisexual women with cis boyfriends) invaded gay male spaces irl, at least they did the one that I was connected to back when I was living as a gay man.

I used to go to a radical faerie sanctuary, which was supposed to center around gay men, but over the years it got taken over by tenderqueer women and afab non-binaries.. the last time I went was just at the beginning of my transition and it was like 75-80% female and all the things that I loved about that space initially weren’t really there, but there was this puritanical vibe to the space and everyone was focused on “processing racial and gender harms”

I sometimes wonder if part of my desire to transition stemmed from wanting to not be on the chopping block in spaces that were made for me, but also wanting to fit in with the straight world and get away from the new “queer” “community”

Honestly, even though I’ve slowly become more and more disillusioned with the broader trans movement and am working on coming to terms with my sex, I can’t honestly ever see myself “detransitioning” in the medical or social sense.

Regardless how my sense of self may change, I think I’m always going to present myself to “ look like a woman” it’s definitely been a benefit for me. Dating became way easier, both as a single person sleeping around, and then finding a long term partner. I’m treated as way less of a freak with a hormonally and surgically feminized body when I wear women’s clothing compared to when I did it without transitioning.

And I’m probably not ever going to “speak out” one way or another, because I think trans issues are a stupid culture war spectacle distraction from real issues in society, and everyone devoting to this issue, TRAs, heterodox TRAs (like blaire white and buck angel) Right-Wingers, Gender Criticals, researchers/sexologists, and yes Detrans activists, are made more toxic because of it.

I’m still kinda bouncing back and forth on this one..

For some reason saying “trans women are males, trans men are females” doesn’t bother me. It’s just honest.

But..

Saying “trans women are men, and trans men are women” feels a hell of a lot less true than saying “trans women are women, trans men are men”

All my life I’ve gotten the impression from society that “being a man” is something you do, not something that you are. I can’t count the number of times prior to transitioning I heard something along the lines of “what kind of a man are you?” Or “man-up!” or “men don’t (xyz) ” etc..

It really seems like suddenly, in just the past few years there’s tons of emphasis on “women are adult human females”

So now im years into hormonal and surgical transition, and it really feels like society doesn’t view me as a man, or a woman, and everyone (myself included) knows “non-binary” doesn’t even mean anything.

So the question in my head now is “should trans women be considered women?” Not “are they/we”

And if the answer is no, which it honestly feels like society is saying loud and clear.. then what? Men certainly aren’t claiming me as one of theirs.. and after enough creepy fetishists and opportunistic sex offenders have taken on the trans identity, women aren’t gonna be so friendly to people like myself either.

How am I supposed to relate to others, especially when at this moment, identity politics has subsumed all aspects of daily life and “what” you are is way more important than “who” you are.

I think I might be coming to a similar state of understanding as you OP, but it’s not because I feel loved as a trans woman, I guess if anything it’s the opposite.

I think I always saw being perceived as a straight woman a massive upgrade from being perceived as an effeminate gay man, but who really truly sees us as “straight women”? I’m starting to recognize my plan to uproot my entire life and go be stealth is both unrealistic and a pathway to extreme loneliness. So now I’m caught between the decision of either trying to suppress a lot of my feminine tendencies (makeup, hair, clothing) to try and fit back in as a “man” or just trying to find a way to accept being “trans” for the rest of my life.. which honestly I’ll probably have to do the latter because it would absolutely devastate to lose my partner, and he isn’t attracted to men.

I do it too..

I post in the first place because I’m trying to sort out some difficult emotions or mental blocks, and lacking a space to do that in real life I come online in hopes of finding people who have similar experiences and can help me understand things better

And then I delete it because I’m reminded I’ve opened up about something very difficult and vulnerable to strangers on the internet who couldn’t care wether I lived or died, and are often motivated by their own ideologies first and foremost.

Lather, rinse, repeat

I’m not trying to bait anyone, I’m just trying to understand the implications of being “detrans”, and from what you and others here are telling me, it’s simply dropping the self-description of being trans and describing yourself as your birth sex, and anything beyond that is up to the individual.. which helps me to understand a little better what detransitioners are about.

I’m not at a point now where I think it’s a good decision for me to detransition, but I want to understand what it is and how people experience it

Is it common in your area for grown men to have to worry about being randomly attacked by other men?

It’s not so much that.. I do live in a low-income area with high crime rate, but I’m generally pretty good at keeping to myself and avoiding that. I think it’s more of a sense of emotional security than it is physical security. Every time I’ve gotten harassed in public, I’ve been by myself, but when I’m with my 6’4 boyfriend, I feel like I can let my guard down, relax and be in the moment.

Would you feel any different if you had a protective male partner who saw you as a man vs a woman?

That doesn’t really happen though, or I’ve never really seen it anyways. I had a number of gay relationships before I transitioned, and there just wasn’t a balance of the masculine/feminine energy to the relationship at all. And I hate to say it, but in my experience gay men tend to be very sweet and gentle, but also very self-absorbed, wishy-washy and the moment things get to be tough, they’re off to better things elsewhere.

Is it something about being in a “gay” relationship that turns you off or simply that you thought it easier to attract a protective male partner as a transwoman versus as an effeminate gay man?

I have nothing against the idea of being in a “gay” relationship, I just want it to be with a “straight” man.

“Fetishizing” is not the same as “thinking you can be one” it sounds like you had/have a fetish, and you changed your body in pursuit of fulfilling this fetish, and now you feel bad about that, so you’re switching to putting down others to feel better about yourself, and in doing so, joining in on societies past time of shitting on males who deviate from gender expectations.

You aren’t separating gnc males from trans women when you say hateful things based on the appearance of trans women. There’s no way you can tell the difference on looks alone.