I’m a cis female but I’ve been reading nonstop about GRS, especially MtF, for a couple months now. I got into it by looking up information about Jazz Jennings and ended up down the rabbit hole. I’ve read some horrible bigoted posts on some subreddits, but I ignored that garbage for the actual information: posts and pictures by trans women who had undergone the surgery.

Society really has done a number on everyone. I don’t blame you or any other trans woman (especially in today’s climate) for thinking that some magical GRS existed that would heal perfectly, function sexually, and just generally be bearable and relieve dysphoria. I certainly did! I remember telling a gay friend “it’s fine! They can just delay puberty with blockers, give them testosterone/estrogen, and do surgeries to correct their bodies.”

I had no idea. No idea that the puberty blockers are a brutal form of child abuse: extremely early and aggressive osteoporosis, multiple organ failure, failure to mature sexually as EITHER gender, no orgasms or sexual attraction in life, just generally destruction. Children treated this have no hope of a normal life. I had no idea that these surgeries we glibly talk about are butchery MOST of the time: especially MtF from what I’ve seen. I could not have IMAGINED the things I’d read and see about these “surgeons” castrating male bodies leaving gaping wounds, open holes between rectum and created vagina, tissue necrosis, complete lack of sexual function in many cases. The fact that the created vaginas cannot self clean and maintain pH, and are therefore susceptible to all sorts of pathogenic bacteria outgrowth. People with colostomy bags for life. Suicide. The horror show that is “dilation.”

I seriously was under the impression that the medical field had worked these things out and got ideal/functioning outcomes in most cases. From what I’ve seen it looks like the outcome is agonizing and life ruining in pretty much EVERY case.

I’m shocked honestly. The fact that this entire thing is portrayed as positive... or even possible! And that people are getting pressured into having their genitals destroyed to rearrange them into a mimicry of what they desire.

I honestly think bottom surgery, at least MtF, should be illegal from what I have read. Just tell the patients the truth: current medical technology is not there yet.

The doctors that refuse to do so and leave people with agonizing, numb, non-sexually functioning genitalia are breaking their oaths. They most certainly are doing harm.

I’d be 100% up front with many, many examples from the internet of people who are now in hell from GRS. I also wouldn’t allow hormones until they were 18 and able to get them themselves, and I’d take the time to (kindly, matter of fact, just presenting the facts) educate them about the negative side effects of HRT.

I always think about this when people discuss GRS... as someone who has a 7 year marriage level relationship under their belt... after the honey moon happy happy joy joy feelings have faded and life’s difficulties set in one of the most important aspects to a marriage is being able to bond via mutual, pleasurable, loving sex. Having no sensation, discomfort, or worse case, pain from using one’s genitals sexually precludes one from having a fulfilling marriage. Yes, it happens through no choice of their own to some people (some women have vaginismus, post child birth complications, men with severe ED) but to make a CHOICE that causes this is basically shooting your ability to be someone’s spouse in the foot.

I would tell your child that the chances of her finding a person to love her who is fine with her “incorrect” genitalia is much higher than if she mutilates her genitals and has difficulty functioning sexually (plus just has an appearance some will find disquieting). She might not be able to fathom it now, but in a romantic relationship the ability to pleasure your partner to orgasm is a bonding experience that can not be matched: that intimacy is what differentiates your SO from a best friend and roommate and keeps the relationship from drifting apart. She should not make a choice that could prevent her future spouse from being able to experience that, because many people will choose to keep looking for another person who isn’t surgically damaged, and if someone does love her and stay, it will be much more difficult to keep the relationship going strong over years and decades... the will to have unenjoyable sex may be there at the beginning of a relationship because of the excitement of the honey moon phase but her interest WILL wane as it goes on, until 5 years in she’s desperately pretending to be tired/have a stomach ache to get out of sex and her partner is lying there utterly miserable, with a soul crushing belief that she doesn’t love them (for a lot of people sexual intimacy/physical touch is a main component of feeling loved). Sex is invasive, messy, and personal, and the ability to achieve true pleasure is a huge motivating factor in having it... just wanting to please your partner may be enough at first but it will not be years and years later in the vast majority of cases.

Maybe show her /r / deadbedrooms in combination with posts where FtM had sexual dysfunction/anorgasmia from surgery... to show her what a sexless marriage is really like over time...

I mean, middle school is when the desire to have a partner arises in some capacity. They may only want to hold hands and exchange pecks in the hallway (lol) but they are beginning to feel the desire to experience a pair bond. It’s a good time to educate them (in an appropriate fashion) about the actual realities of an adult relationship. I know from when I was that age, my mom was rarely one to have “serious” conversations especially about sexual matters, but the ones she did have with me really stuck and changed the way I lived my life... just things like “if a girl gets pregnant young, she doesn’t get to experience life the way everyone else does... she doesn’t get to go off to college and have those experiences, she has to stay home and her life becomes caring for a new life” and “soon the choices you make in school will follow you the rest of your life... your grades will affect what colleges you can get into and will determine what opportunities are available to you”

Those conversations, given plainly without judgement or hyperbole, just realism and honesty, helped me make the right choices during my teen years and get where I am today.

My point here is that it doesn’t have to be some sexually explicit alarming conversation, just something plain and real, adult to developing adult, and kids really take it seriously when their parents treat them respectfully like separate human beings and just give them the facts in the form of guidance.

I have thought a lot about what I will do if I end up in your situation.

A. I would not take her to a counselor that specializes in transgender issues if they have a reputation for being 100% affirming. You have no idea whether they will convince her further that she needs hormones and surgery. I think you SHOULD research counselors that work with people suffering from dysphoria, from the perspective of getting children to understand that their interests do not mean they need to alter their bodies. You need someone who will help put all of this in perspective. As you said, she has 0 idea how she will feel about her body, life, sexuality, etc at 25 years old. 30 years old. Or even 21 years old. She will be a completely different person at all three of those ages, I changed immeasurably from 14-->18-->21-->25-->30. If you could put those 5 people in front of you, all 5 versions of me, they would all have very different ideas about their life priorities, romance, career aspects, pretty much everything. From what I have read, dysphoria/gender issues can also completely flip/change as one's brain matures and one experiences the world as an adult. Has relationships etc. Having long term adult relationships teaches you that successful marriage requires a healthy sex life. If one mutilates one's genitals before they learn that lesson, and is left non-functioning or worse as a permanent medical patient, the horror of realizing that even if you find someone to love the physical damage from elective surgery may prevent a lifetime of happiness with them... I didn't understand until I had a 7 year relationship how important sexual compatibility and a sex life is to a marriage. I would say it's in the top 3 features that will allow two people to maintain a lifelong relationship.

B. Just like you and your husband, in absolutely no case would I allow any permanent changes before 18. Puberty blockers, hormones, surgery, etc: All a huge NO.

C. This might be intense, but I would share photos and posts from the internet of GRS, top surgery, testosterone REGRETS. Start a google document with this information, piece it together and slowly explain it to your daughter. Tell her that you want her to 100% understand the risks to her body and mind from these interventions before she runs off at 18 to start undergoing them.

D. Above all, be loving. Don't come from it as "I AM TRYING SO HARD TO CONVINCE YOU NOT TO DO THIS" come from it as "Because I love you so much, I need you to fully comprehend what these things mean before you make any permanent choices. I desperately desire your long term happiness, and if after you research and understand all the risks that are involved transition you still want to, I will support you every step of the way."

This is very interesting to me. I still think that implies that there is some sort of physiological basis, as I never met an 18 year old boy (or any boys/men) who would even consider wearing dresses/makeup/heels or getting BREAST IMPLANTS or his PENIS REMOVED because he felt unimportant. The fact that that seemed like an acceptable path for you indicates, in my mind, something different about you and other people who trans and then detrans than people who never for a single second consider “changing gender” in an attempt to solve their problems.

I hope that didn’t sound offensive, it’s not meant to be. I just mean that I was a very depressed teenager, too frightened to be sexual with boys (lost my virginity in college), suffering from family issues etc... but the idea of becoming a man to cope seriously wouldn’t have crossed my mind in 1,000 years. I always liked being a female, presenting as such, wanted to date men, etc.

I would not be surprised if there was still brain structure/function differences in people who transition.

I believe your experience. I even think Jazz Jennings was born that way... that doesn’t excuse the lengths, the irreversible lengths, her parents went to during her childhood because of it. Experimental medications, surgery at 17/18, etc. I seriously worry in 10 years she’ll be wondering why she sacrificed her sexual health for this ideal when she could have found a man who loved her despite her different “equipment” downstairs. They exist. They’re harder to find but they absolutely exist: love transcends a lot of things.

I’m cis and straight, but if I met a fit butch lesbian that I was extremely compatible with I can’t say I 100% wouldn’t give that relationship a try.

I've seen one, ever, who 100% passes. She's a makeup artist on youtube and instagram, some kind of southeast indian ethnicity (very important because she's short, doesn't have much in the way of shoulders, large hands/feet, etc), and most importantly: a multi multi millionaire who has probably had a million dollars in plastic surgery. Full face, body, fat transfer to make hips, etc.

So I would bet it's like .01% of people I wouldn't clock instantly, and they'd need to be genetically "gifted" in that way (androgynous already in shape and size) as well as have a shit ton of plastic surgery.

I think some bigoted people are maliciously saying such things, but for people like myself, a cis woman who very much accepts trans women and does not care how they choose to dress, what surgeries they get, etc: delving into the realities of GRS and what has happened to a LOT of people who had it is really shocking.

Honestly I think that the utter horror of a poor result should be communicated much much better to prospective patients because they should really know what can happen if it goes wrong.

These aren’t just a few isolated cases either, it seems like a LOT of people have horrific complications from GRS.

I’m really glad yours went well and you are happy and comfortable!

For some reason I’ve seen much fewer FTM horror stories. Perhaps less trans men undergo the surgery? That’s a wild guess on my part, but the whole thing where they cut off the tops of your thighs is pretty alarming so perhaps that is why i don’t see as many stories.