For most people it does NOT make the face passable. Yes you may be able to create prettier instagram pictures and sleep with better looking guys, but in real life, no, most people who get FFS do not pass afterwards in any serious context. This is seemingly a simple subject, but theres actually a lot to say about it and I don't want to write a huge essay. I will list some FACTUAL generalizations (yes I know generalizing is a dirty activity in todays modern world, the exception is seemingly the rule these days, rather than the actual rule).

1. Male skulls are bigger than female skulls

2. Male skulls are shaped differently than female skulls

3. Male anatomy has more VARIATION than female anatomy. I could describe this with bell curves, but basically males have more "outlier" features or in other words there are more weird looking males than weird looking females. For example, guys with huge huge cranial vaults, 5-heads bordering on 10-heads, yes of course their female relatives will also have "tall" faces but you do not see the same number of females having these extremely accentuated features. This is found all throughout animal species, the males of the species display more outlier behavior and this caries over to their appearances as well. You could boil it down to the theory that in nature, females typically select male mates and most or all of the females will breed, so having more "randomness" in the males allows for more fit breeding to occur, a wider selection for the females to choose from.

Now for FFS, lets see what it can reconstruct

1. Frontal cranial plate, including the "brow" area BUT critically not the borders or width of the plate or upper maxilla. Its only changing the anterior projection, which yes will create a feminizing effect, but it will also have the effect of making your forehead and eye area appear broader.

2. Shaving angle of the jaw up to the chin. This again will create a "softer" looking jaw, and yes soft features are considered more feminine. However the width of the jaw is not changing at all, the TMJ remains untouched, width of the face is untouched, all that has occurred is that the part of the face defined by the mandibular angle through the chin has been narrowed, but everything above the angle remains the same width, you can see how this can create an unbalanced effect, but the point is that you only changing SOME of the jaw and you aren't actually reducing the size of the jaw, just the sharpness of how the angle looks. Also, and this is key, women can have EXTREMELY sharp and BROAD jaws, for example Keira Knightly. Yet they do not look "masculine" and this is because having a sharp and defined jaw line is not really "masculine feature", what determines masculinity or femininity of a jawline is the SIZE of the mandible and also the LENGTH and how it interacts with the rest of the face. Jaw shaving does not in any way shorten the distance between your TMJ and your chin. Now reconstructing the chin, you can pull the chin back a little but its not going to have a huge effect on the length of the mandible.

3. Cheekbones/Zygoma. Again these are anterior bones of the face, shaving them down or moving them around can create a softening effect from the front, but its not in any way reducing the size of your face or for example reducing the distance between your cheek bones.

4. Chin, you can shrink your chin, but this is one of the most anterior/forward features of your face. A lot of feminization can occur with changing the chin, but overall its still a relatively small aspect of your face. And again you can run into problems where reducing the chin too much makes the rest of the face disproportionate so you can accentuated other male features, make them worse.

These are minor critiques of limitations of FFS but the MAJOR critique is all the stuff FFS cannot change, does not effect at all. Looking at really basic distance things, FFS will have zero effect. Distance between ears, zero. Distance from the crown of your head to your nose, zero (moving around the hairline will not stop others from perceiving the height of your head fundamentally). Distance between nose to your teeth, zero. Size and distance of orbital sockets. Width and height of head, zero. Volume of skull, zero.

Another important point, and this one is usually the hardest for trans people to accept, humans are hardwired to distinguish between gender. You don't need to "know" shit about trans people to be able to clock them. You don't even need to understand why your brain and intuition allowed you to clock someone or recognize that something is "off". If you get clocked and ask them how they clocked you they will usually say something stupid like "oh your hands" "your adams apple" because they do not even know how they clocked you, they just knew instinctually and then came up with a stereotypical reason when put on the spot.

Ask yourself how you are able to recognize a down syndrome person. There is nothing inherently grotesque about their faces, not obvious deformities, yet you know INSTANTLY that they are not "normal", that they have a developmental disorder, because the totality of their features, which are unique to downs syndrome people, give it away.

So, generally, no FFS does not make a face passible. If by passable you mean look like a regular female. Now there are always exceptions and outliers. I don't go as far as saying the passing is impossible, but its definitely less than 1% of MTFs.

The problem is that 99.9% of the trans community is absolutely clueless about the information I gave above. Its ironic and sad that trans people, in wanting to change sex, understand so little about sexual dimorphism.

For me, this information is validating to my decision, but to those who have stronger trans identities than I did, those who really can't "detransition" because they really have no male identity this info just makes things worse. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

I think surgeries more heavily change peoples experiences than other forms of transitioning, this should be obvious.

For example I was on the VERY EDGE of getting extensive FFS with Deschamps-Braly and was only talked out of it by a trans friend who really helped my realize the immense barriers that prevent a male skull from looking female. If I had had that FFS surgery I would be a very different person and have a different mindset, I doubt de-transitioning would be been "easy", I would have had to emotionally deal with things in a different way if there were irreversible changes. I think I still would have made it out ok though.

There is a fantasy phase and a honeymoon phase to transition. People can't really tell you if you will enjoy the "rest of the your life" phase that comes after. Only you can know that. And unfortunately it may be hard or impossible to know without giving it a good 'ole try. That being said..

Don't buy the narratives you read from people who go like "I decided not to, and waited 5 years and then i broke down and did it and now I'm so happy"

Or that say "I tried transitioning, quit, but the feelings don't go away, so I started again"

Those people did not actually transition seriously or fully commit.

99% of people you discuss "transitioning" with online will be people that only just started and don't actually have a depth of experience to draw from.

I did not take hormones due to feeling suicidal. Feeling suicidal just came with the identity crisis that also precipitated transitioning.

Transitioning, physically, solved the "what if" itch. Suddenly trans people and transitioning was not fascinating, it was real life. If I did not go through what I did I would constantly be wondering "if I just transition I will be happy like those people I see online" stuff like that. Almost similar to the cliche of obsessing over a fear and then when finally confronting it, the fear goes away. Except this not dealing with fear.

Also out brains are still maturing in our 20s and my brain literally thought about things differently at 19 then for example 25. I just thought differently, and conceptualized life and what I wanted out of it differently. You see this a lot in young transitioners (I was not super young, I started around 20), things they didn't care about in the beginning they begin to care about years down the road.

You haven't explained why you are a depressed or what you are looking to achieve.

I would tell you to do basic things like exercise your body and go outside and socialize.

If you didn't make the right decision by transitioning.... then just go restart HRT. Go get FFS. But you haven't even explained what your goals are or why you think you will be happy as a trans woman.

Have you ever considered that your depression and mental problems do not revolve around "transition or don't" but instead have deeper underlying reasons that you are using "trans fantasy" to shield from.

I don't know why you are acting like you can't transition in the south or its hard to find hormones there. Its not. There are tons of transitioners in the American south.

Your mindset is probably still stuck the same as when you were 18 or 19. I bet your brain will function differently when you hit 25. Things start to "slow down".

I think girls are more prone to social contagion. Studies show girls follow more social media and also have more herding behavior when it comes to new social trends. In modern day social trends occur in bubbles, so while of course most girls are encouraged to be feminine and follow feminine trends, its undeniable that there is a "trend" to being trans for gender non-conforming females.

Bottom surgery isn't relevant. Its easier to create an innie than an outie, period.

Males engage in my risky and outlier sexual behavior, so people are more wary of men in general, especially if they are behaving in non-conforming ways. Its threatening.

My moment, because I am very goal oriented and very ends justify the means, was when I decided, through extensive research, that the way I was thinking of passing and the ability to pass, with surgeries, was heavily flawed. Passing didn't seem realistic and I wanted to be normal, not feel like a weirdo. Once the goal was out reach, my mindset changed quickly after that.

But its different and there really is a spectrum for how strongly one has an identity. My gender identity is weak. Other trans women I know have very strong female identities, and for them they will think differently than myself, who has a more detached gender identity.

I don't understand why people on this sub think the narrative will ever change. Most "normal" people are not interested in getting criticized for being a bigot, for analyzing trans people, in a critical way, at all.

I don't think its a trend that will break, just because people detransition.

Gender roles are not going away as long as they have value. And for most of humanity gender roles have HUGE value (for many many reasons). So people will transition to realize their "ideal" self. You can celebrate a masculine woman as much as you want... but reality is that image will not be as appealing as a masculine man for the average person. Just like some pretty twink boy will never have as much social capital as a beautiful woman.

So people will chase ideals.

Western countries over-analyze this stuff to death, if you go to a country like Thailand with a huge trans culture, its much simpler to understand. People there detransition all the time as well, it doesn't make new trans ppl in Thailand not want to transition. The idea that being trans is some Western social trend that will die and everyone will just be satisfied being "masculine women" and "feminine men" is silly

Its possible to grow out of feelings like this, because that is what happened with me. But I think its harder to grow out of them when you never dabbled in transitioning and never saw all the dumb negative shit it can bring into your life. Cause if you never try then it stays as a fantasy and fantasies are always easier to indulge and nuture.

You also can grow out of or morph sexual desires but also a lot of times these never go away, especially in males that train their minds to associate sexual pleasure with very specific ideas.

I think you have to put yourself in context. You can't play the rat race game of comparing yourself to other people all the time. Focus on your positives, not your negatives.

Also maybe look up stories of men who lost their testicles, so you don't feel alone.

Theres always something to be jealous about, not being tall enough, not having a big enough dick.